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How to Meditate: Meditation 101 for Beginners
10 Science-Backed Benefits of Meditation
What is Meditation?
How to Meditate: Meditation 101 for Beginners
10 Science-Backed Benefits of Meditation
What is Meditation?
Benefits of Mindfulness: Mindful Living Can Change Your Life
Mindfulness 101: A Beginner's Guide
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During this conversation Florence teaches us a skill called ‘Insight Dialogue’, which is a form of mindful communication.
G'day, it's Melli O'Brien here from The
Mindfulness Summit and this particular
masterclass is something I'm really
excited about because this masterclass
is about mindful communication.
Now I have to say for me, this is
where the rubber really hits the road
because isn't it true, right, that,
you know, the moments when you really
get triggere,d when your buttons get
pushed, when we tend to be most reactive,
most of the time, it's when we're in
communication with other people, our
friends, our coworkers, our loved ones.
And so mindful communication gives us
this capacity to be more skillful, to be
more kind, more loving and more authentic
in our communication with other people.
The masterclass you're about to watch is
with the wonderful Florence Meleo-Myers.
Florence has been teaching
meditation for over 30 years.
She's a certified siddha yoga teacher,
as well as being a senior MBSR teacher.
MBSR, for those of you who don't
know, stands for mindfulness
based stress reduction.
She went and studied in India
with meditation masters.
And she also holds degrees in both
education and psychology and she's
also a licensed family therapist.
And since 2003, Florence has been focusing
in on something called insight dialogue,
which is a form of mindful communication.
It's a form of mindful communication
that she's going to teach
to you in this masterclass.
I know you're going to enjoy
this interview with Florence
and gain so much value from it.
Without further ado, here's
the masterclass with the
wonderful Florence Meleo-Myers.
So Florence, actually, first of all,
I really want to just thank you really
from the bottom of my heart, for your
time and your presence and sharing
it with myself and the community.
Thank you for asking me.
You know, and, and also for your work,
because it's been very influential in my
own life and, and many lives around me.
So yeah, wanting to take a moment
of really appreciating you for that.
Thanks so much, Melli.
So Florence, would you say that when
you think back that you were spiritually
inclined as a child, or was that
something that came much later for you?
Mm, I was exposed in my family
to impermanence very young.
And there was a death in the family
that impacted me strongly, and
it really spun me into a lot of
wonder about how could this happen?
What is this life?
What is it to be alive?
What's the meaning?
What happens after you die?
Very, very young.
Questions around that.
And who am I?
So those questions, actually for many
of us are questions that lead us onto
a meditation path or a spiritual path
of some type of what is this about.
So, you know, it's just
was right there for me.
And eventually in my teens,
I heard of meditation.
And, and when the first time I heard
it, it was like, I want to know more
about this and it wasn't so available.
It was, you know, really,
certainly nothing that would be
as accessible as we know MBSR is.
But I began.
And in my twenties met a meditation
teacher, an Indian teacher.
And studied in India for part of the time.
And then continued, you know, with
this practice, stayed, came back to the
States and eventually ran a meditation
center for close to nine years.
And all of this was around those
questions of really exploring this
life, the value of this precious life.
And, and, how do we know,
how do we know ourselves?
How do I know myself?
And, then so, so that path is
still extremely valuable to me,
but I was teaching meditation and
working as a family therapist.
So separately.
And I was working with a lot
of people, healing from trauma.
And there were adults, children, families.
My background says a family therapist,
but it was, you know, you can work the
family with an individual, it's not like
you have to have everyone in the room.
But I knew I couldn't, I knew that I
couldn't, this was not another practice
that I could just easily pass to them.
It had more ritual and complexity to it.
And yet what I knew is that that
was a missing link in healing.
You can talk, confront, you could do
all kinds of layers of recognizing your
innocence in having been trespassed
in your life, but how to, how to offer
somebody some practice of coming home to
themselves that's very streamlined ,that
has the depth and integrity of any real
deep practice, but also is not,flowery.
Right.
Right?
Yeah.
It's so real it's.
I mean, it's not in any way putting
any other practice down, it's just
simply, it's so accessible, MBSR.
And was that your first exposure to
MBSR by, by trying to find a way to
integrate the wisdom of, you know, the,
the insights gained through meditation.
So you were looking for a way to bridge
that gap and that was, was that your first
exposure to mindfulness practice or...?
Exactly, I mean, with all this meditation
background, but still it was MBSR.
So as I came to help my clients
and my patients really, and,
and help them in very skillful
ways to work with the suffering.
So that's really what brought me here.
Aah.
Interesting.
And then I'd be curious to
know because my background is
actually kind of similar to yours.
I know that you started with,
it was a siddha yoga, wasn't it?
Yeah.
And, and so you found this pathway
for your clients, but I'm curious
to know what unfolded in you in that
journey in because to teach it, you
really just begin to integrate it
so much into life, those principles.
So what happened for you when
you started to use MBSR and
teach MBSR to your clients?
Well, in some ways there were, excuse me.
In some ways, there were such a closeness
and it wasn't like, it wasn't, it was..
There was the uniqueness to the
practices, but familiarity as well.
And to me, that is, if it's, if,
if it's a true path, it's got, it
has to have universal application.
So, so I would say with the siddha
meditation, there was a very strong
recognition of wholeness of every human
being, of, of recognizing that in one
another and oneself and in one another.
And that to really wake up to
how we perceive, you know, what
are the glasses we're wearing?
How do we see our own lives
or the world we live in?
And so MBSR has the recognition of innate
genius, innate wholeness of every human
being and the possibility that we can
skillfully wake up to this wholeness
and capacity that is already here.
It's not like we have to be a more
improved model of ourselves, but wake
up to the brilliance that's here.
So, so, my first retreat with Insight
Meditation, I was holding that
question, Melli, that you're asking.
And I kept feeling like
it's the same room.
I'm looking through different windows
or doorways, but it's the same.
And I would say my experience
with teaching MBSR has
everything to do with love.
And that's a big word to use.
I don't mean that in any kind of,
you know, hallmark card kind of way.
But fierce love, fierce, to
actually choose to be intimate
with one's own life and value.
You have been teaching through both,
you know, I think, I think over
30 years now through Siddha yoga
and then MBSR and you've taught,
you know, probably thousands and
thousands of people over that time.
And I'm assuming that you must be
picking up on certain patterns that
you see in what unfolds in somebody's
journey when they begin to practice.
And so I'm curious if you have noticed
when somebody's beginning to consistently
practice that they're doing the
work, what are the common aha moments
that people have, those breakthrough
realizations that, that changed them.
And, and, and what are the
fruits of those realizations?
Hmm.
I think one of the first things is to
not expect aha moments because there's a
lot of assumptions and misunderstandings.
Like one of them is I can't meditate.
My mind's too busy.
It's like saying I can't go to the gym.
You know, I need to work out first.
It's already here.
So that's one.
Another one is like, and the
media often supports this, but
kind of being above at all.
A little ethereal, reaching
some perfected state.
So the first thing in my teaching
,I think, is to just diffuse
some of those assumptions.
So just see how, how extraordinarily
ordinary and ordinary the extraordinary
is, right here, right in this moment.
And, and given that, I do hear things
too, you know, these insight and one of
them, I remember a woman very clearly
saying, and also it's more than one,
as you said, there's patterns that
show up, but the recognition that we're
more than our thinking is gigantic.
That, you know, if, if I can know
sensation is right here, I'm familiar
with emotion, I get swept away at times.
But, but Descartes said it, you
know, it's, here's, I'm thinking.
I've got this kind of aligned and
that's just the way it is and it.
And yet thoughts can be known.
So what's that, that can be awake to
all the random thoughts, the brilliant
thoughts, the complex, confused
thoughts, but suddenly thoughts become
like waves in an ocean that rise and
fall in the ocean that's holding it.
So that's one that has been
heard, a greater sense of clarity.
And then very beautiful is
appreciation for the small gifts
and beauties in any given day.
Just these moments that are right
here, like, like a flower blossoming
right in front of us, that many
people have been too busy to notice.
So beginning to claim the
life that we are given.
I, once I'm thinking right now, as
I'm saying this of a teacher who had
taught at a grammar school who was
in a class and she taught there for
like 20 or twenty-five years, And she
said, I suddenly saw the tree outside
of the school after all these years.
I'd never saw it before.
It's exquisitely beautiful.
It's like that, you know, that finding.
And, and it's internal and external
because I think another very, very
powerful experience, and I guess it's
freedom, but it's reclamation too, I
think, that comes through practice,
is claiming parts of ourselves that
for whatever conditioned reasons had
to be splintered off and stuffed away.
And they were liabilities and
don't, you dare show that to anyone.
And, and with practice, it's like,
Oh, that can, this can be mad.
And in many places, it turns out
these are great qualities, you know.
They are assets to us, but
they were somehow we believe
they needed to be dismissed.
I was talking to somebody
about this yesterday.
They were asking me, you know, what does
authenticity have to do with mindfulness,
because they'd seen me talking about it.
And that's exactly a perfect description
to me of why authenticity has so much
to do with mindfulness, because it's
this, you know, as you say, this, well
an invitation really, to embrace all
that you are and without judgment.
And, and to me to be able to live
like that in touch with all of
it, the whole catastrophe as Jon
says, the full catastrophe of it,
it's, that's authenticity to me.
Yeah.
And that's a really good way to live.
Yeah.
I agree.
So besides the authenticity, I'm curious
to hear your take on, you know, that
realization, I am not my thoughts
and the clarity that comes with that.
What, what, what are the fruits of that
do you see in, in people's lives when
they realize, Oh, I'm not my thoughts?
What, what it gives is a refined
relationship to those thoughts or to
emotions, to different sensations,
especially challenging, unpleasant,
painful sensation or emotion.
But it's, it's, it's as you're
saying, authenticity is, is like we're
holding, we're allowing all of it.
We're not going to act on all of
it because that's going to, that's
a certain kind of discernment.
That is, that also comes with
mindfulness around here it is.
Now, what choice do you want to make from,
from this being fully with this right now?
So, so that's what I see and the freedom
that can come from, oh, there's there's
that thought I've had that thought
like thousands of times in my life.
Huh?
Is it true?
Is it necessarily true?
Maybe, maybe, not.
Do I, do I need to follow this
path again on this thought or...?
It really does underscore the
pause, that there's awareness.
Intimacy allows the freedom choice.
So there's that possibility to steer
our lives with greater wisdom and
with greater compassion from the
being present with, as it is now.
Hmm.
And from your experience of decades
of teaching, as well, something else
I'm really curious about is, you know,
once somebody has a, we, we know, I
think, you know, we spoke about it
a lot in the, in the summit, really
the importance of formal practice.
Once we have that, what do you think are
the ways that, that you observe that are
the most effective ways of integrating
that, that awareness into our daily lives?
Are there things that you've noticed
that just really work for people?
Little tricks?
No, it's funny.
Well, the first part of it is the
whole life that the practice they, the
cultivation of mindfulness and awareness
involves every moment of your life.
It's not just time on the cushion, but
formal practice is kind of an anchor.
So that choice to say this time is
just for me to be, just to be, and
to know this being and you know,
there's enough pulls on all of our
lives, to that, that's becomes.
It's a discipline, but
it's a refuge as well.
And then from there, how does
this flow into the mundane
unfolding of a day of our life?
So, one thing I find is that choosing
a few routine activities, and we
invite people in the MBSR classes,
you know, you know, to take a few,
showering, brushing your teeth, walking
the dog, some simple activity that
normally we might just be mindless.
It's like time out instead of time
in, to anchor that because then that
intention and the repetition start
building a deeper groove in one's day.
And it almost can remind us.
It can become a time for...
One of the times, for me, that
I've established is the time
that I walk out of my door.
In the morning?
Yeah.
And I'm facing East and it's, and
it's like, I'm about to get in the
car, I've got to drive to work,
but there's, it's like this moment.
And I've already sat, but it's
this, this moment right now.
And, and when we, so that
intention helps to come back.
Something that I've experienced, and
I think many people with a meditation
practice for a period of time would say
this as well, is that the repetition,
the discipline of daily practice,
even if it's in fact, small incidents
throughout the day, is what builds.
It's like the, the color and
the pattern and the fabric
almost tick it's remembrance
there with those small moments.
But times when I have had very high
demand, you know, there is some,
some real crisis I had to deal with
and what I found was that it was
as if my practice remembered me.
I was upset about something,
but I had this feeling like my
practice kind of was right there.
It was because it was embodied,
because it had been cultivated and
it was a natural turning toward.
Right.
Even, even under duress,
it was like, wait a minute.
Let me remind you/ let me
call you, very lovingly.
So, so, you know, tips I would
say is to look through a day
and choose certain times.
I know a lot of physicians will say just
as they're picking up the chart or as
they're opening the door and this patient
is like a new universe, just this moment.
So how can we do that?
How can we start new in the
tiny moments of our day?
But what can happen?
Are you familiar with the painter Seurat?
No.
Pointillism pointillism.
And it's like, if you saw the picture,
you probably would recognize it.
Just he created paintings
of like dots of color.
And then of course, when the eye
receives it, it's, it's a picture.
It's forms and trees
and people and the lake.
And, but when you look close,
it's little dots of color.
And that, I feel like, is
what our day can be like.
These moments, these moments that
start to build greater resilience,
greater strength and remembrance.
I feel like this is such an important
thing because there can be, and I
know I've done this myself, so there
can be sometimes a tendency, if we're
so, so many spiritual practitioners,
if you will, we can do a thing where
we do our practice and then there's
this real sense of like, okay, tick.
You know, I've done my
meditation practice, tick.
I did some exercise, done.
Now I'll just go about the rest of my day.
You know, and that's such a shame
because this is really, you know, this
is what we're doing it for to, to, to,
to be fully awake to our lives, to have
more choice to, live authentically.
So I really love that idea of just, so
just kind of like choosing something,
like doing the dishes and whenever I
do the dishes, I, I'm awake for that.
Hmm.
Whenever I go to the doorway and
another one that I love is the car,
because we so often rush when we're
getting in the car to go somewhere.
There's often such a sense of
I'm going to get somewhere.
And then when I, you know, we fall,
it's easy to fall into the mind pattern
of this moment is not important.
It's really just a means to an
end for me to get where I'm going.
So I love that.
And on a really practical note on
that, a piece of feedback that I
received in the past from some people
is that when they tried to do too
many things, they became overwhelmed
and kind of let the whole thing go.
So would you recommend just choosing,
say, if you've never done anything
like this before, maybe starting
with one or two, three activities.
What do you think?
I think it's up to the person to decide.
But, you know, what I hear in
your question is how can we
support people to start building
this and not overwhelm them?
If they're saying it it's
like, one thing really present
is, is precious, right there.
So it's quality.
This question, how long
should anybody meditate?
You know, of course we have 45 minute
recordings here and that's recommended.
But the question is what's
the quality of attending.
So, so washing the dishes and really
being there with all of the sensory
experience and the internal-external
processes is a gigantic thing to do.
And then that, built over time,
can become a resource too.
It's like something is known and the
physicality and the presence that
can then extend without ever having
to say again to check another box.
But it, it very naturally starts to build.
Very much so.
You also teach something that
I'm really excited to talk
about this insight dialogue.
And I really, I'm just going to read
out a little printout that I printed
from the internet about what this
is so that our viewers can kind
of really get a sense of these.
"So insight dialogue is a way of
bringing the tranquility and insight
attained in meditation, directly
into interactions with others.
It's a new practice that involves
interacting with a partner, maybe in a
retreat setting or on your own, as a way
of accessing a kind of profound insight
and then you take that insight into the
grind of everyday human interactions."
Now, I, I'm excited about this because I'm
just going to, this is how it is for me.
I can get on the cushion, and just,
it's obviously it's not always easy.
You know what meditation is like.
It's different every day,
but generally speaking.
I feel it a really deep sense
ofbelonging, a sense of being
at home with, within myself.
You know, really it's
quite nourishing for me.
It's a joy.
It's not a chore for me
to get on my cushion.
I love it.
So, but I can get off my cushion, and
come in and have a cup of tea with my
partner and like that, I'm triggered.
So this for me is where
the rubber hits the road.
This for me, it's like the toughest thing.
How can I be more awake in my
communication with other people?
That is a juicy question.
So the first thing I would love
to explore is, I personally would
love to try a formal practice of
insight dialogue, you know, at home.
And I'm wondering if you could give
us guidelines, is that possible that
you could give us some guidelines too
you have a try if we want to try it?
Like after this video, what do we do?
My partner is going to wake up soon.
You know, tea with your partner
and start inside dialogue.
You, Melli, what you're doing
is awareness and in dialogue.
What what's happening now,
well, we've been talking, have
you been aware of your body?
Casually.
I know, I know it's sitting here.
I mean, I'm not, because I'm
focused, I'm peripherally aware,
aware of, you know, the bird song
outside, my breathing, my body.
Yes.
Okay.
So our practice of mindfulness, it's
like every moment of our day, right?
So
Ideally.
Not in a perfection thing, but
just that it's, it's universal.
It's not, it's, it's not a technique.
So any moment we can be awake.
So that's all true.
And then there are times and practices
that can hone very specifically
on different aspects of practice.
The relational has always
been fascinating to me.
And I think family systems
and relationships, I mean,
as a family therapist.
As so many, like what happens there?
So.
So insight dialogue is insight practice
that was founded by Gregory Kramer.
And I studied with him and I,
and taught somewhat with him.
But I also, you know, this was mostly
on retreats, it is predominantly
insight dialogue in retreat.
And sitting at the CFM, feeling the
power of this practice, which I'll say
more about, I wanted to find a way and
Gregory Kramer did too and also some
other MBSR teachers, to bring this to
people and what we thought we're people
who finished, who completed the8-week
MBSR class would be at a good, like
what we call here a graduate class.
I, you're not alone with this sense.
It's like so many of us could, when people
hear like relationship, okay, I'm in.
You know, like that, I could use that.
So why?
What is it?
So, so we are such sensitive
creatures where we're really tuned.
You just said, you heard, you know,
peripherally, you heard a bird outside.
Our receptivity of this moment of
being, of contacting our world, it's
not like there's us and our world, that
this moment of touch, moment to moment,
hearing, the eyes, scent, all the senses.
There's touching and then there's the
knowing from that moment of contact.
All well and good.
The birds and the flowers and the sky.
That's all lovely.
Cushion, lovely.
And then we come to the beauty of being
with another human being and here,
the possibility is heightened, I feel,
because we have a lot of conditioning.
We are social, relational creatures
and to survive, we had to be seen.
We, this, this is part of, you
know, we needed that campfire.
We needed groups to
support us in some way.
And then the communication
becomes not just words.
And we know this, and words are very
small percentage of our communication.
What's the body doing?
What's the, with the flip
of the eye, a slight twist of
the head, meaning is being made.
We're we're like our antenna are out.
Did they liked me?
Is this okay?
Are they judging?
What about.
What am I feeling in this exchange?
There's a me and a you.
And then in our families, of
course, there are layers to that.
Oh, you're the one who...
And we, we can solidify that around
our concepts of this me as I am.
Oh, I'm the shy one.
I'm the..
I'm the wallflower.
I'm, I'm the life of the party.
But there's simply more ideas about
what's possible here with two people
choosing to be awake moment to moment,
to be in the not known, but choosing
to be in a space of awakening together.
And that's what can happen
with the practice that's
comes from insight dialogue.
And as I started saying, so this eight
week class, the interpersonal mindfulness
class, and I've done some trainings for
teachers as well to teach that class, it
feels so important to me in our world.
There's so much division.
And, and then there's these, there's
this, those of us that are saying, wait
a minute, there's a me and a you, but
there's the possibility that this veil of
separation can be honored but also opened.
And the meditation guidelines are.
I'll just go through them right now.
So the first, there are six of
them, and the first one is pause.
Do you notice anything in your
body when you feel, when you
hear that word just pause?
Like a feeling of
relaxation through my belly.
Ah, interesting.
Okay.
So, so the pause is an invitation to
be awake, to intercept the kind of
the whee, that's just moving, moving.
Like you're like, I've got some place to
go to, as you were saying, that can be
interrupted with a moment of alertness.
So pausing is okay.
Here.
Here we are.
That might be a moment of being silent.
It might not.
The next, these guidelines emerge
and they're very, very familiar
to our solo practice as well.
So the next one, and you
just named it, it's relaxed.
You felt something ease when you
chose to attend, then you, you
felt something shift in your body.
So the guideline relax, on a very
concrete level, may be what's, I'm awake.
Oh, my shoulders are high.
I can release that.
Is there, is there muscle tension
that's unnecessary or added that can
actually be met here and released?
Maybe yes, maybe not.
But it's not forcing
anything it's invitation.
But following from that is, oh, allow.
So this relax too, this
is how it is right now.
It's just this way.
The body-mind is just like this right now.
On the far end of that spectrum
of relax is love and of just this
being with life in this moment.
The next guideline,
the third one, is open.
So from a kind of very strong
concentration, one-pointedness,
there's the possibility of opening,
which you'd named peripheral
could be actually embraced here.
And you and I are in this
open space of mutuality.
So we're opening to our
interconnectedness, our interbeing,
as Thich Nhat Hanh says.
And then the next one,
they're all so beautiful.
The next one is trust emergence.
So trust emergence is like, as we are
here together, not knowing what will
come next, there's the leaning into
the not knowing, that we know change
is constant and we can trust it.
We can actually not have to fight
it so much, but say, because
this is the source of creativity.
This emergence.
Look what you've done, you and
your husband, are seeing this.
And then, you know, from this first,
what would it be like to do this,
then this, then this is, because
you're responding to what's emerging.
Mm.
I love that.
I love, I love the idea of that in
general, in relating with another human
being, just to have having that moment
of just not, not planning, not trying to
figure it all out, not having an agenda.
I feel relaxed just thinking about it.
And I do too.
And it's also, so what a lot of normal,
you know, parlance, there's a constriction
around, I've got to say something smart.
I've got to be clever.
Will,they like me?
All of, all of that is going on
and it may be showing up in a
relational mindfulness practice.
But you're noticing it.
You're present with it.
Oh, it's a thought, Oh, there's
that sensation in the belly.
Oh.
It just, it, it does.
It's not a definition of you.
But that's where so many
people feel like,, I can't.
They fill the space.
I have to, have to fill all of the space,
because what if there's a silent moment?
Oh my gosh.
From trust, emergence comes,
listen deeply, speak the truth.
So I'll say something about that.
Listen deeply is really listening
internally and offering.
It's like an offering really to
your south end, your meditation
partner because we become partners in
meditation with this practice, that your
expression is maybe a tiny movement.
Your eye, a smile.
It, it might be the tone of your voice.
It's the words you're saying.
It's but, but at the deepest level,
there's presence, to be present
with ourselves and with one another.
And so the listening deeply, really
has guidance on moving from the
words, and the expression through
the body and this being-ness.
And then the speak the truth
is to pause and feel into what
is actually true now for me.
It's subjective truth.
But to take the time to
connect with this emergence.
And it's authentic, it's your word.
It's what you're meaning is.
It's deep authenticity.
One of the things I've found, I do love
this practice from which, and the it's
one of the most remarked about practices
that are done, is done in the eight
week class and in intensives as well.
The people often refer to it like.
I had no idea that this space
where, you know, the kind of solo
meditation practice or it's, my world
can open into a space of mutuality.
And when you were pausing
into mindfulness, if I'm like
caught up in my own stuff, your
practice supports me to remember.
Yeah.
So it becomes this generosity
that goes back and forth.
And then embracing, embracing both, and
then it can be larger into a whole room.
Yeah.
So I will.
I'm just reading the minds
of our view is right now.
And I think I'll just let everybody
know that I will write down those six
steps so that you can practice this.
I'm going to practice this today.
I've got a willing participant.
So I'm also wondering, obviously that
formal practice would be an incredible
support in just, you know, building more
authentic and awakened relationships.
And I imagine that's just going
to infuse into daily life.
And I'm also wondering, do you have
any other things that you've noticed
that work in informal communication,
informal mindfulness communication?
Is there anything else that
you'd like to offer in terms
of what works in daily life?
I, you know, I feel of all
those guidelines, pausing.
I mean, that's choosing to be awake.
That's, that's making that
choice toward mindfulness.
But just to give ourselves permission
to pause, to really listen, We interrupt
each other so much, and so often I
find when I do that kind of knee jerk
interruption, and if I say, Oh, I'm
sorry, I, you were saying something.
Very often the person is like, no.
It's just right where the thread is.
So to, to, to care for one another enough
to ask more, to listen to, and I think
for each of us as well, Groundedness
in the body is really, really, really
important because we, we can jump
out, especially at another person.
I know exactly what you mean.
It's so easy.
It is, it is.
Yeah.
And that's what I've heard
people say in different classes
of the relational practice.
It's somebody saying I want to stay home
in my own body when I'm in connection
with another and just getting lost.
Yeah.
I really relate to that feeling.
I mean, it really, I think that's
actually a really nice way of saying it.
It feels like you jump out of
your groundedness, just like that.
Yeah.
So I, I would say that's one real strong,
feel your seat, feel your feet, being,
inviting yourself into the moment,
fully present, physically especially.
And the other part, and listening.
And I wanted to say
something about that too.
But the third, there was just something
else I wanted to say about this.
Oh, it's the same, another quality that
supports our practice is curiosity.
Can we be curious about our, with,
right, with our own experience and
who is this person that I'm with?
What, what's possible here?
So listening is not just something
that I'm doing here, like with my ears.
Listening has often been used
as another word for meditation.
So where it's, you know, it's like,
as we connect internally, if I find
you're speaking and I'm running tapes
in my mind of what I'm about to say,
that's a place to pause, because,
because we're just flying off.
So that, that gentle invitation
to come back comes from that
listening internally and externally.
There's an exercise I've invited people
into, especially in intensives, and it
focuses on a time in your life when you
were, had something you wanted to share
and you were listened to and another
time when we weren't listened to.
And it's, it's a longer process.
I won't go through all of it.
But almost there, I don't think it's ever
happened that I worked this with this with
a group that it didn't come to this place
where a person remembered a time when
they were really received, really met and
listened to and seen, I would add too.
They say, I am loved.
And so the, what I would like to point
out is that we all have the power to
offer this to our ourselves with kindness,
with, you know, a lot of gentleness
around some of the heartache we may
listen to internally and with one another.
It's like we have a gift that
we could give that actually has
potential to heal the multitude of
times when we weren't listened to,
or we didn't listen to ourselves.
Sometimes I think it becomes obvious
when you dig a little bit underneath
the surface, that a little, a
little, what seems like a little
act, a small detail of daily life is
actually something so much deeper.
And that's such a great example of just,
just offering your presence to another
person when they want to share is like
it's such an act of love, isn't it?
I mean, just when I, when you were
saying that I was thinking about
a time when I was really listened
to and a time when I wasn't.
And even before you spoke those words,
I had this come to the same conclusion.
You know, when somebody is
listening to me, I feel like you're
saying to me, I care about you.
I want to hear you.
I want to connect with you.
You're worth listening to.
Ah, so very, very true.
I'd like to ask you a personal
question if you don't mind.
And I'm just curious if you can think
of a time when you were triggered,
maybe in the recent past or the
distant past, if you're lucky enough.
And what did you do in that
moment and what happened?
So well, I have a selection
I have to choose from.
I'm not alone.
Okay.
I think I, I can share one.
So this is not distant.
It's, it's within the year probably.
And I was coming into a meeting.
And I had, I had in the agenda
and things that I wanted to share,
but I suddenly realized that I was
feeling not in my seat and a kind of,
definitely a kind of vulnerability.
And then I noticed that
my mouth was very dry.
And, and I was at a, so all
of the recognition was here.
And I.
I started speaking and I could feel how
dry my mouth was and I just stopped.
I said, first I said,
I just need a moment.
We need to pause for a moment.
And then I said, I just want to
say, and of course I'm at the Center
for Mindfulness, so, you know, I
said, I, I am just very aware that
my mouth is very dry right now.
And the whole, the whole group shifted in
a way that I just my having the freedom to
say that out loud, I think brought a lot
of kindness and compassion into the space.
But it also,It was like, here's
the stress react, reactivity.
It's right here.
I mean, everybody in the room is
familiar with this, but something
about the authenticity of naming it,
because I could have chosen not to.
And there will be times that
will not be appropriate at all.
You know, depending on who you're with.
But most important of all
would be the inner recognition.
And from that place, that's an act of
compassion because that is the listening.
And then from that clarity, you know,
I'm using listening here, connection of
awareness, then the choice can be made.
You know, I just need a few moments, offer
yourself care, recognize who you're with.
It's it's, you know, what the,
what being awake can allow us.
The choices and the freedom
are possible there.
But I said that out loud.
So that, so that was, for
sure a time, you know.
I could think of others.
And I, I love how you mentioned that
there was the shift in the room as
well, because I've, I've noticed that
a couple of times when other people
have kind of just added their moment of
vulnerability and when I've done it as
well, it's almost like everybody just
relaxes and just goes, Oh, you know.
Not, not only, I think not only
because there's a, a vulnerability,
but it's just such a wonderful moment
of connection, especially if there's,
especially if there's a scenario
where someone's presenting or they're
being the authority or there, and
they just go, Oh, you know what?
I'm really nervous right now.
Or I'm feeling this.
And it's, it's almost like a visible aaah
in the whole room or the conversation.
Why do you think that's so?
What do you suppose happens there?
It feels like to me, a mask just came
off and there's no real boundary of
pretending or showing up as anything.
No protecting.
There's no more protecting happening.
That's kind of what it feels like.
What do you think?
And I think that we, that discernment
is needed there because it's like, what
is the role that we're in, we're in?
So if we're the teacher in a
group, how much we say, I'm nervous
right now, may not be skillful.
Knowing it is totally important.
This was a meeting, you
know, so it was separate.
At the CFM.
But the other part of that is what
you're naming about the mask coming off.
It ties back to what you
shared about authenticity.
And whether we share the specific moment
of nervousness or something or not,
what's most important is we're just people
who are choosing to, to wake up and,
and to be in connection with ourselves
and with others, you know, hopefully
to create greater peace and compassion.
These milli-moments during our day
that start to build up in the world.
Mm.
And I think you're right, you
know, a lot can be said, um, n a
moment of being triggered or, or,
you know, whatever's going on.
I think a lot can be said
without saying a word.
And I'm imagining, you know, a difficult
conversation that I could have with my
partner when he wakes up and we have a cup
of tea, you know, without saying a word.
You know, I can, I can remember times
what, you know, you can be triggered
and then sometimes all you have to do is
just kind of recognize it and just go.
And yeah, without even saying
a word, you know, some you can
disarm, I think in a way, so, yeah.
I'm glad you mentioned that.
You don't have to always verbally out
ourselves for that sense of, you know, ah.
And what you just said is
I'm here, is what it is.
I am here.
I'm I'm here and it's like this right now.
I'm here and I'm here with this response.
I'm here and I'm not missing it.
I just have one more question.
And that is if you could time travel and
you, you know, you could go back with
all the experience and wisdom that you
have now, and you could travel back in
time and meet your former self and just
whisper one piece of advice in your ear.
The you, and this is the you in the
past that's just about to start on
the journey to mindful living, what
would you, what one piece of precious
advice would you whisper in their ear?
I think it would be just keep going.
Keep going, because it's
not going to be flashing.
It's not going to be a sudden epiphany.
There, there are insights.
There, all of that that we
know and exquisite beauty.
But there's also waking up to exquisite
tenderness, vulnerability, fear.
So, so not to be deterred by those
times when it's like, Whoa, that's
whole person that's whole life.
Wow.
So keep going.
And, you know, that's., there's
this word discipline, but
it's this steady, keep moving.
Yeah.
Beautiful question.
Hmm.
I've really, really enjoyed
connecting with you.
I've really enjoyed this
conversation and yeah.
Thank you so much for your
time and your presence.
Thank you, Melli.
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