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How to Meditate: Meditation 101 for Beginners
10 Science-Backed Benefits of Meditation
What is Meditation?
How to Meditate: Meditation 101 for Beginners
10 Science-Backed Benefits of Meditation
What is Meditation?
Benefits of Mindfulness: Mindful Living Can Change Your Life
Mindfulness 101: A Beginner's Guide
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In this interview, Mirabai talks with Melli about the key principles and practices that create a more mindful workplace.
I'm your host Melli O'Brien and
I'm just so delighted to be here
right now with Mirabai Bush.
Mirabai is the author of
Working with Mindfulness.
And she's been a key contributor
to Google's mindfulness program
called Search Inside Yourself.
She's the co-founder of the Center
for Contemplative Mind in Society.
And she's really, it's really such a
privilege to have Mirabai here with
us because she's really one of the
world's leading experts on integrating
mindfulness into our work day, both
on an organizational level and really
on an individual level as well.
So Mirabai thank you so much
for spending this time to share
your wisdom and experience.
It's great to be with you.
I'm already enjoying it.
Me too.
I'm really curious about this niche
that you find yourself in, you
know, mindfulness in the workplace.
I'd love to hear a little bit of
the story of how you came to be so
interested in mindfulness and, and
specifically mindfulness at work.
Well, it's a long story.
But sure.
We have time.
I, in 1970, I was in graduate school
and studying for my PhD and it was
a hard time on American campuses.
It was a time of civil rights
and, and antiwar, work, and
things began to be very confusing.
And so I, with, with my then
partner decided we'd take
some time off and travel.
And we went through Europe and through
the Middle East and in, and to India.
And I didn't actually even plan to
go to India, but we were just kind of
journeying and hoping that we would,
by meeting different kinds of people,
hoping that we would find other ways
of being that made more sense to us.
But I got to India and the first day I
was there, I was in New Delhi and I met
on the street someone who had been at my
university, but I hadn't known her there.
It was Sharon Salzberg.
And she, she had just heard about
this retreat that was being offered
by Goenka, Burmese meditation teacher,
for the first time for Westerners.
So she told me about that and I
thought that sounds interesting.
I hadn't come to learn meditation, but you
know, we are in India, so might as well.
So I went there and it
was a 10 day course.
And it began at five in the morning and
went till 10 at night and there were
two meals and it was all in silence
and we just meditated all day long.
And my mind had been really
busy until that time.
Of course, as a graduate student
in literature, I'd read everything.
And I had never really thought about the
possibility of looking within for wisdom.
Even insight or understanding.
But through that first course, I got
the tiniest glimpse that, oh, my God,
there's a way to look at your own mind
that I am not my thoughts or my emotions.
I actually, there, there
is awareness there.
I can rest in awareness and, and
discover the way my own mind was working.
That was so amazing to me.
So anyhow, I stayed, I, I was with this
group of people, whom I met when I got
there and we just loved the course.
And then we asked them to do more.
And so we stayed for, I don't know, we
did four or five, I think, and over a
couple of months and, and then left there.
And as I said, I was going to stay
in India for two weeks, but I was
so, I was so moved by this new way of
understanding, which was at the same time,
so familiar and intimate that, and I knew
there were other good teachers there.
And so I stayed in India for two years.
I met my root major teacher
Neem Karoli Baba there and
spent a lot of time with him.
And then many other people who became
the, the beginnings of meditation
and mindfulness in this country
were also part of that first group.
Ram Dass was there and Joseph
Goldstein and Sharon, of course and
Wes Nisker and many, many other people.
And, so.
iT was an intensive time of
learning, a new way of being.
And then I came back to this country
and most of the others, Danny
Goleman was with us also there.
Most of the others, either
started retreat centers.
We were all like, totally
committed to this.
Oh.
You know, we came back.
So some started centers and
others went back to school.
Dan Goleman and, and, but I, when
I first came back, I had a baby.
And then, and in those days,
babies and meditation just were not
ever spoken in the same sentence.
So you couldn't possibly have a
baby and be teaching meditation.
So I, but I, I really wanted to find
a way to integrate mindfulness into my
life and, and share it with other people.
So I, with my then husband, who I had
traveled with, we started a business.
It started out as a small, funky business
and it grew over time to, in those
days, was a biggish small business.
We had 65 people working and, and we
were, we were making, we're making
transparent decals of the, of mandalas
representing all the spiritual and
religious traditions around the world.
We wanted to express that we had
found this common core everywhere
we went, in temples and mosques and
churches and with all kinds of people.
So we did that for awhile and, and,
and then we, we were experimenting
with things and we created a
transparent rainbow and that became,
that was like, like mindfulness now.
It was like the leap from, you
know, the sort of alternative
marginal, esoteric to the mainstream.
And we were at some, one point
we were in 10,000 stores.
And so, so neither of us knew anything
about business when we started.
And we hired people we thought
were cool, and none of them knew
anything about business either.
But we had to learn quickly because it
was a lot of money going through and
there, you know, there were lawyers and
bankers and, you know, major players.
So we did learn.
In the process.
I, we wanted to integrate
from the beginning some of
this new awareness we had.
And we would, we would begin our
meetings always with silence.
And we would, not everybody there
wanted to learn to meditate, you know,
so we, but we had yoga classes and
we had kind of mindfulness classes.
But, you know, we didn't require
it, but the whole, it was
integrated into whatever we did.
And based on, you know, basic
moral and ethical principles that
were in alignment with, with, with
mindfulness, we, we, we created a
set of guidelines for the business.
And this was before, you know, in this
country, there was a big movement after
that, of, with people like Ben and
Jerry's and the Body Shop and, and others.
This was before any of that.
We were really experimenting.
But it was, we were so successful as a
business and people loved working there.
The employees of Illuminations,
many of them who now, I mean, we
ended in the early eighties and
they still have annual reunions.
How lovely.
People say it was the best job they
ever had, you know, cause we were all
learning together as we went along,
but we did integrate these practices.
So I had that as, as one of
my like great experiences.
And then...
So it sort of sounds like something that
happened quite organically that you...
It did.
There wasn't a, we didn't have a
like model of, you know, of being a
social venture business or anything.
We just were trying to do it.
We were, you know, we had challenged
a lot of American institutions before
we left and we thought, well, this
is you know, maybe business can be
caring and loving and environmentally
sustainable and all those things that
just came out of what we had learned.
It was really fun.
Then in the eighties, I helped
with some of the, some of the
people I was in India with, had...
Some of them were medical people, doctors
and epidemiologists, and became involved
in the end of the small parts on planet.
And when, when they came back and we
came back, they wanted to do something.
We all wanted to do something to give
back to, to these countries, not just
the teachers, but the countries that
had taught us a different way of being.
So, we, so together a group of us
who had been with Neem Karoli Baba,
including Ram Dass and Larry Brilliant,
who was, and his wife, Girija.
He was, he'd worked on the
end smallpox and now runs Jeff
Scoll's Urgent Threats Fund.
But anyhow, a group of us
started Seva Foundation.
So, seva means service in Sanskrit.
And we, we focused on blindness,
starting in Nepal and India
spreading out through India.
And it was a great organiztion,
still a great organization.
And Seva has done, has restored
sight to 3 million people without
cost who would otherwise be blind.
I mean, it's amazing.
That is amazing.
And we raised the money through
rock and roll with the Grateful
Dead as our house band.
So it was really great.
But as part and Seva enlarged
it's view for some years.
And for 10 years I worked in, I
worked in Guatemala with Mayan
people in the highlands doing
sustainable integrated development.
And there, they had just been through
this terrible, terrible violence and
there I really learned that the way in
which the mindful practices, mindfulness,
compassion, loving kindness are really,
really useful and critical for sustaining
oneself in difficult situations.
I, I, I knew that before, but
Illuminations was not like a
really, it did not put us in the
presence of a lot of suffering.
Right.
Whereas there was, it was relentless,
endless suffering in Guatemala.
A lot of people were amazing and
they did extraordinary things to
rebuild their communities, but it
really required, you know, required
patience, compassion, and just energy.
We'd go home at the end of each day,
not home but wherever we were staying
and just cry and cry and cry because
it was just like unrelieved sadness.
And, but we had to come up with like
creative ideas about how to help
rebuild without getting in the way
and, and with very few resources.
And I saw then that these practices are
just, I couldn't have done it without it.
And so now, I think even in, certainly
in all kinds of organizations,
but you know, now in business, I
really see that, you know, a lot of
people are under a lot of stress.
And you know, it may not be that they,
you know, their village was burned down
and they have to flee to the jungle for
two years, but feeling a lot of stress.
And I really know how those practices
can help sustain us individually.
So.
And then after, um, sometime in
'96 with, with the heads of two
foundations, Nathan Cummings Foundation
in New York and Fletcher Institute in
Michigan, their, their directors were
presidents, were friends and together
and with a group of other people, we
kind of were brainstorming what...
They had just funded a Bill Moyer
series on healing in the mind.
And we're looking at the way in
which these practices are being
used in health and healing.
Jon Kabat-Zinn was part
of it and many others.
And we started asking whether these
practices, they started asking whether
these practices could be beneficial
in other areas of American life.
I was convinced that they could.
But we, so we talked for a couple
of years, you know, we tossed that
around and brought in anybody we could
think of who was a quote "expert."
There weren't very many.
And then we started exploring and we
worked in a lots of different areas.
We worked in higher education
and in journalism and in social
justice activism and in, I forgot.
But one area, oh, we eventually
worked with the army.
But one area was business.
And...
Right.
And were you involved in, in
rolling out those programs in
higher education in the army?
And or did you specialize
in, in one of those?
Or...
No, I was, I was the executive
director, so I had to oversee
them all and look at to them.
And now you're really getting
into like the, at this point, it
sounds like you're really getting
into mapping out, so to speak.
You know, using your previous
experience to really map out how you
would roll out mindfulness into an
organization and really having to
think out how that looks and feels.
Exactly.
What works and what doesn't.
And all these different sectors, you
know, they just all had different ways
of viewing the world and, and different,
vocabularies and different concerns.
And so I imagine you would have to frame
it very differently for higher education
than you would for the army, what kinds
of things they would be interested in and
how they would all the language around it.
And.
Yeah, exactly.
Interesting.
The army was interested in resilience
and higher education was interested in
contemplative epistemology, you know.
How we can know and then knew
in a different way, how we can
balance critical thinking with
contemplative knowing, you know.
So yeah, it's different in every place,
but it's also basically the same.
So at the same time.
So and at that time also, I knew, and I
was close to a lot of the major teachers.
So we could bring in the best people.
So when we start, cause these were
like high risk situations people,
we, one time did a retreat for
what's called the Green Group.
They're the CEOs of the national
environmental organizations like Sierra
Club and NRDC and the Wilderness Society.
And they were pretty skeptical about,
most of them are scientifically
educated lawyers and they were
really pretty skeptical about this.
But they also were stressed and they
needed, you know, creative ways to, to
look at this immense job in front of them.
And so they just decided to give
it a try, you know, and they
were pretty amazed at the end.
They all said, well, yes, but
when we go back to work, we can't
tell anybody we've been here.
We can't use the M word.
Right.
See, that's not so much
of a problem today.
I may, I think it's
still is but not as much.
It's not as much.
But that was still in the
nineties, you know, and the word.
And the word, even then the word,
not then, but yeah, even now, to some
extent, the word meditation is not as
acceptable as the word mindfulness.
This is why we use
contemplative mind as a way to.
People weren't really sure what it meant.
But, but it didn't immediately
evoke, you know, weirdos, you know.
So but now, of course, the word
mindfulness in such short time has
become very unthreatening to people.
Right.
Yeah.
And so how did you end up becoming
involved in, with Google, with their
Search Inside Yourself program?
I worked with a few other
corporations from the beginning
and we, we were nonprofit.
We weren't like being
consultants or anything.
We, we simply had the goal to
encourage contemplative practice and
awareness in American life in order to
create a more just, sustainable, and
compassionate society that was there.
So but I found that what in the first
corporation had worked in, when the
CEO was replaced, the new person
coming in got rid of the whole program.
And that's, you know, it's common in
business, no matter what the program, the
new guy wants his own thing, you know?
And we had worked a long time developing
this program and it was, and it
needed more time, you know, for for
people to get really grounded in it.
So and then, then I did a short thing
for Hurst publications and, the, for
one of their magazines and the publisher
was replaced just before we did .This
was like an eight week, one, two hours
a week kind of course in New York.
And it's so amazing that, I mean,
people get just as stressed over
fashion as a thing, you know, as they
do over any, any kind of business.
Yeah.
So they were stressed and they loved the
course and, but the publisher was replaced
just before the last, the last being
most important class, right, in which you
learn how to take it out into the world.
And she canceled it.
She wouldn't even let us do
the last class and she didn't
want anything to do with it.
So then I began to think, well, maybe
we should work in business schools.
And we did a little work at
Stanford Business School.
And, but then one day the phone rang and
it was Meng who's my partner out there.
And he, we had a friend in common who
had encouraged him to call me, cause
he said MIrabai's had experience in
business and not many people had that.
Yeah.
And so this is 2007 maybe.
And so Meng had tried to, he wanted
to bring, or, you know, when, when,
when Google went public, you can
appreciate this, when Google went
public, they, none of those young
engineers had ever had to work again.
But they were young engineers and
they loved what they were doing and
they didn't want to stop working.
So Google told them that they
could do anything they wanted,
as long as it, it, in some way,
furthered the mission of Google.
So Meng decided he wanted to
bring meditation into Google
because it had really helped him
through something in his life.
So he, he found an MBSR, mindfulness-based
stress reduction person in Mountain View.
And of course that had been the
course that it was so successful
in so many organizations.
He was sure it would
work and he posted it.
These are all these
opportunities at Google.
He posted it and nobody
signed up and he was shocked.
I was shocked.
So he didn't know what to do.
So he, that's when he called
me and I went out there and
we started thinking together.
Me, never having been there
before with fresh eyes and
Meng knowing everybody there.
We started looking around and
we, together, figured out, but it
didn't take much, everybody there
is really young, really smart and
competitive and has been in front of
their screens most of their lives.
Cause, cause they are young and,
and, and so the place where they
were at least well-developed was
the emotional intelligence, was a
self-awareness and awareness of others.
So, and they need that
because they work in teams.
They tried to build Google plus.
And so we decided that the thing to do
would be to offer the same practices
that you wanted to offer before, but
to emphasize their, their capacity for
cultivating the factors of emotional
intelligence, empathy, compassion, so on.
Yeah.
And so you had to do a bit of a rebrand.
Yes.
It was a rebrand.
We changed it, we changed it a
little bit, but not that much.
This is, I remembered that when we
got finished and we designed the whole
curriculum and everything, and Meng said,
"And when we get this completely finished,
I'm going to, we're going to make it,
open source cause we're Google, you
know," And I said, Meng, these practices
have been open source for 25 years.
Of course it's we actually did create
a curriculum and wrapped it around
with framing that was particularly
good for, for young engineers.
And, but, and then we asked Danny Goleman
to, if he would come out and give a talk.
And he said yes, because
we're all friends.
So he came out to Google and he
gave, he gave a talk for the
first time linking these practices
with emotional intelligence.
He, you know, his book is I think still
the best selling book in the history
of social science publishing, but
he was very careful when he did it.
He didn't, he didn't in the book or
later say, you know, mindfulness and
meditation are, are a direct way to
cultivate these capacities because
he didn't want it to be marginalized.
And when he published the
book it would have been.
So this was the first time he could
really talk about the connection
and he did it beautifully.
And I don't know, four hours
later, we had 140 people signed
up, you know, and ever since then.
Now over 3000 Googlers
have taken this course.
And, and now, you know, they
have an institute that takes
it into other organizations
and trains teachers and so on.
Yeah, because here, here in Australia,
we just had the, this wonderful friend
of mine, Jono Fisher just brought out.
I saw that, yeah.
And so we, we just had, you know,
anyone could just go and get the
Search Inside Yourself training.
So it's become really,
really, really popular.
I know it.
That's right.
Okay.
Well Meng wrote the book about it.
So that really helped.
And, and it's just, you know,
these practices are, you know,
they're deeply human practices.
They're about us waking up
to our own minds and hearts.
And anybody who, you know, who received
them from a reasonably good teacher, you
know, understands that they're so helpful
and that so much of the way that we're
all educated doesn't allow for that.
And, and that they really, they help
us in all these ways, all the ways
that the research is now showing.
So,
So I'd love to what, what do you, what
do you see as the components of the
Search Inside Yourself program that
are really powerful, that, that have
really made this program so successful?
Are there, are there little components
that you could share with us if people
want to kind of use them to integrate into
their work day or into the organization?
Well, I would say one thing about the
process that made it so successful.
They are, as you know, data-driven.
One doesn't think about
mindfulness and data-driven.
This is just too much or didn't use to.
But what that's really meant for
the course is that, you know, we
taught it over and over and over
and got feedback and refined it and
worked it in different ways until
it really worked for that community.
And I mean, I've, I've actually
never seen any organization,
like work that thoroughly.
And with of course, the people who
were, who had helped to develop
that, you know, great people.
And so there was a lot of enthusiasm
about it, but a lot of, a lot
of loving effort went into it.
So that's one thing and it was effort to
design it so that it worked for Google,
you know, cause they have a culture and
so it's very aligned with their culture.
And I think that that is the one
of the most important things about
bringing it into your workplace, not
so much individually, but if people
are become interested in introducing
it to their workplace, it really needs
to be framed and adjusted so that
aligns with, with that workplace.
And they were the first really to
frame it also with the neuroscience of
mindfulness and Chris McKenna right there
with Stanford and we had some really
wonderful people helping with that.
And that made it, in that community,
that made it very, you know acceptable
and not, not just acceptable, but
it was the great motivator because
once they heard that, you know.
Once they could see the brain
on, you know on an fMRI, then it
was like, Oh, I want that too.
Yeah.
It becomes a, it just becomes a
really intelligent thing to do.
Doesn't it?
It's, that's how it really, yeah.
So they more, no, no, no.
I've found that not every group is
that enthusiastic about the science.
Some people are just like, let's get
past this and start meditating, but yeah,
but that there, that was really great.
And, and then I think the
emphasis on, you know, on, on
loving kindness and compassion.
Really people started getting more
loving and kind and compassionate.
And that started a, a change in
relationships in, in that workplace.
Actually, I was going to bring that
up, actually, that, that specific
topic, because it's, it strikes me
as being one of the, I mean, rolling
mindfulness out in an organizatio,
you know, relationships have to be a
pivotal part of that program, bringing
mindfulness to the way that you interact
with other people in the workplace.
So is there specific things that,
that you can do, exercises or tips on
how to work with that specific aspect
of mindfulness in the workplace?
Yeah, I think mindful,
well, communication, mindful
listening is very powerful.
We do, in Search Inside Yourself, but
also in lots of other places, we do
an exercise called some people call
it deep listening or calle it mindful
listening, wherein you sit with a partner.
And as that partner speaks you listen,you
listen fully for what is being said.
You're silent and you're, and then as...
It's the same process as when
you're sitting by yourself with your
eyes closed, watching your breath
and letting go of your thoughts.
As you notice thoughts coming into your
head about thoughts about this person
and their story, or about how you could
fix it or about how the very same thing
happened to me or, or thoughts about when
I finish here I'm going to go do something
else or, you know, the whole range.
You just notice those thoughts
as they arise, and then you
let them go and you bring your
attention back to the other person.
And now when we're in a conversation,
usually you don't, you don't want to
be kind of so strict about that like,
because many things that arise in me are
helpful in terms of our conversation.
But in this, you, you learn that
in letting go, you can fully
listen to the other person.
And you realize how little, you
know, you often are listening.
So many people, especially in the
workplace, you're busy thinking
about what you're going to say
when that person finishes talking.
And it's almost always a
big awakener for people.
So, so I think cultivating good
listening skills are really important.
And then of course, good speaking
skills being, being able to be truthful
and truthful in, in Buddhism, they
call it right speech, you know.
Be truthful, be kind, to be timely.
So you might have something to say to me,
but this might not be the time at all.
And I might not be able
to hear it, you know?
And the way in which you say
it, if it's not compassionate, I
also may not be able to hear it.
So, so those two things go a long way.
And are those things that you integrate
into at, in Search Inside Yourself,
is that something that you do, you
teach as a formal practice where you
kind of, you actually sit down and you
get to practice mindful listening and
you get to practice mindful speaking.
So that the idea then is that you,
you have this practice time and
then you would go out and just be
natural in your natural environment.
You don't have to kind of like sit
there in silence while somebody speaks.
But the idea is just, don't bring
your attention to these relating
that you do and sort of trying to
infuse that with more mindfulness.
Exactly.
That's true of all these practices.
I mean, when you, you, when you sit
and watch your breath and look at
your thoughts and realize you are
not your thoughts, you know, Yeah.
When you, then when you open your
eyes and go back into the rest of
your life, you're not self-consciously
doing that, but the awareness, I mean,
mindfulness is both a practice, but
it's also an awareness that you bring
into everything that you do, you know?
Yeah.
I had, I was teaching the incoming
students at Amherst College last fall.
And I had them, they were having
a hard time just really paying
attention to their breath.
It's pretty subtle actually, when you've
been living a really kind of wild life.
And I had them look at a leaf.
And so they all had a leaf and, you know,
they just would bring their awareness
back to their leaf over and over.
And just when they thought,
it's a leaf, I saw it.
Then you bring it, bring it back again,
and then there's always more to say.
And that, and so they were not
then going to go out and look at
everything for 10 minutes, you know.
But, but then, you know, you bring up,
at least when you look at something,
you may not give it the attention,
it might not be important enough
to you to see everything about it.
But at least, you know, you're
only seeing the most surface part
of that thing, whatever it is.
Yeah.
So that can in the same way as the
mindful communication, it, it affords
an opportunity to have a formal practice
where you can look in a different way
than you usually look and to experience
relating to this visual object, a
leaf or whatever in a different way.
And then that could afford you the
opportunity when you walk out the door
to see things afresh, so to speak.
Yeah.
So that kind of infuses, I think
there was a, there's a, a story
that I've heard over and over again
about, you know, having a bowl of
water that has some gold paint in it.
And then, you know, every time
you practice mindfulness, you
put a little white rag in and a
little bit comes off and then you
practice again a little bit more.
And then eventually the, the,
the white rag is, becomes golden.
And it's that kind of idea of
formal practice doing that.
Yeah, exactly.
Another thing that, I heard you do an
interview with my, the lovely Shamash.
Alidinana my friend.
It was a pleasure listening to it.
And one of the things that I really loved
is that you spoke about how at Google you
were training people to, before they hit
the send button on their email, to stop
and take a couple of deep, slow, conscious
breaths before they hit the send button.
And I love the practicality
and the simplicity of that.
It's just something that can become
peppered through your day, these
little moments of mindfulness.
And I was wondering if there was any
other really simple, practical things like
that, that you might offer from not just
from Google, but just from your years of
experience that people could take away.
That one's good because you not only
take the three breaths, but then you
reread the email from the perspective
of the person who's going to receive it.
So it's really practical.
And then you either change it or not.
But you know, reminders
during the day are helpful.
So some people will do the thing like
they'll take an object, like the doorknob.
Every time they go through the door,
they'll take one deep breath or three to
remember to remember to kind of settle
into their bodies, be aware of their
bodies walking through space, you know.
Or when the phone rings, use
that as as an awakening bell, you
know, So reminders are helpful.
Yeah.
And then I think, yeah, just
having a little silence at
the beginning of a meeting.
You can do it at the beginning
of a conference call even,
that turns out to be radical.
That's what we did at the
beginning of this call.
Yes.
And do you know a moment or a
minute, you know, a lot happens.
You remember.
The thing is we, we want
to do the right thing.
We want to remember, but things are
moving so fast and there's so much
input now that it's, we forget.
So just taking those moments really
helps and particularly helps in
connection with, you know, doing more
formal practices and, and, and being
in community with other people who
are also trying to do the same thing.
That's really important.
Yeah.
And I think mindful walking is a
great practice for the workplace.
First of all, we're supposed
to be walking more than we do.
You know, they say sitting
is the new smoking.
Yes.
So, but even if you're not,
self-consciously trying to get up every
hour, that most everybody has to walk from
one place to another, a few times a day.
And so if you bring your awareness
to, to your body, to your legs and
your feet, as you're moving through
space, That's a great one, because
usually you're not doing anything very
important while you're walking anyhow.
And
Except for ruminating
about your whole life.
Exactly.
And then trying to get there
instead of being where you are.
So, yeah, I think that's an
important one for the workplace.
I'm curious to know Mirabai, with
all of your experiencing this
area, how, what are the things
that you personally do everyday?
What works for you?
I know we're all different, but what are
the little habits that you do ever day?
And do you have a formal practice
that you do generally speaking?
And then what are the other informal
kind of little tidbits that work for you?
I, you know, one thing I think
is important for people to know,
I found that over time, over
like 45 years that it changes.
So my basic practices are still vipassana
meditation, mindfulness, loving,
kindness, compassion meditations, insight.
And then I also, because I
also have thisconnection to my
original teacher, Neem Karoli
Baba, I, yoga and chanting also.
And he, he gave me a couple.
But like one main instruction which
was, love everyone and serve everyone.
So I keep that in, in my mind and
come back to it all the time to
just sort of see if, what I'm doing,
is in some way fulfilling that.
So that's like, so I think
mindfulness of intention is, is
important, and, and all the others.
I mean, at one time in my life,
I just, I've been doing sitting
practice and walking practice
for 10 years or something.
And I was in a very stressful time in
my life and I just couldn't sit quietly.
I just, my mind was racing.
And even though the instruction is just
return to your breath, I was inside.
I hated it.
So I started doing aikido and it
was so perfect for me at that time.
And, and it was utterly
different, you know?
So I, I just think that that's
important for people to know.
People may start by just simply
learning a basic mindfulness practice.
Yeah.
But you know, there are so many that
work in different ways for people to
cultivate those same, you know, qualities.
Yeah.
And I'm really, I think one of the
things that I really appreciate about,
you know, the work that you do and
the different ways that you, you see
that one audience may need mindfulness
framed in this way and another audience
may need, as you said, you know,
the, the, the one audience needs the
research and they need practical sort
of, you know, very tangible exercises.
Another sort of audience may, you
could almost literally say, you know,
go into your body and they're such
sensing people that they might not
need as much instruction or they
don't need, they, they're not as
inclined to need it framed in that way.
You can just kind of present it.
And then there might be a really
active person who could do aikido and
cultivate the same quality of being
more awake in their lives and more
kind and compassionate and connected.
And I think that's a really important
message that, that, that this summit
is getting across and many teachers
are saying the same thing that, you
know, there isn't really a right
and perfect way for everybody.
And it's fine to explore different ways.
Yeah.
Yes, yes, yes.
Thank you.
That's a great word, explore.
Yeah.
Well, I just have one, one more
question that I'd like to ask you.
And it's the same question that
I've been asking everybody who's
been taking part in this summit.
And you know, they say, it's said
around, you know, in the media
and stuff like that, that, that
mindfulness has now gone mainstream.
What I think is that it's
entering mainstream culture.
It's certainly been de-stigmatized a lot.
I'm wondering what would happen
when it hits critical mass.
I'm talking sort of like 50% of the
world's population or thereabouts.
So my question to you is if mindfulness
would a truly go mainstream, what kind of
a world do you think that would create?
I think it would be a world in which we
recognize more deeply our interconnection
and with that, our responsibility
to each other and not out of a sense
of responsibility, but out of an
inner knowing that we are connected.
And so just as, I don't want to
suffer, you don't want to suffer.
So what can I do to prevent that for you?
And I think we'd understand more about
how everything is changing all the
time and not try to hold on so much.
We'd be, I think, you know, less
materialistic in the sense that we think.
We might not even own less
stuff, although I think we would.
But, but that we would understand
that, that happiness and awakening
doesn't happen through owning stuff.
That, that would be a big difference.
And I've thought a lot about all the
different, what parts of society that
would change and how that would, you
know, how would architecture change.
But, but I think that they would
all come out of that understanding
particularly of interconnection.
Yeah.
Is there anything else you'd
like to share before we close?
Only that I really loved
talking to you for this hour.
It was really fun.
Me too.
Yeah.
You know, I kind of thought, Oh, I'll do
it, you know, but cause I always say yes.
That's a problem, but
it's really been nice.
I feel really good.
Aww, me too.
It's a
great way to spend an hour.
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
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Vidyamala’s tips on catching anger as it’s happening or about to happen are great - clear, practical, and doable.
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The little talks before the meditations are priceless. It's like I've found my peeps. The topics, the quotes, the goals—it all makes so much sense to me, things I want to be thinking and learning about. Most importantly, the meditations are kindness-centered, which I love. It feels like a new way to approach meditation.
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I love how the app gives me pointers to new things to explore.
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